L7XUMC

^L7XUW6:  -2010.08.29pst1706 (~1% complete 1st version):
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header info

Contents —Read for a quick full-picture of what's here

1. “KVA16I: Document Background & History”
1. L7XUMC: 2010.08.29pst1658 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. 
   
2. sections]

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3. “^KVA16I: Document Background & History”

1. ^L7XUMC: 2010.08.29pst1658 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. “^L2MXTP:Confidentiality & Copyright: This document is copyrighted & could be confidential; specifically the document's owner(s) require all having this document abide by LoveRules.Info ownership & access rights (on LoveRules.Info About) with no exceptions unless its owner(s) state otherwise below or here:” no exceptions now.
2. “^KVA3T1:Initially formed by: copying as directed” Writely doc KUJWXV http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=0AX07OJ9W4BnBZGM2dnN4ZHdfMjQ3Nzk2Mzd4Zms “Revision 1238 -2010.08.07pst1118 (~99% complete 5th version)” to new Writely doc L7XUMC https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc6vsxdw_338cmjjt7gp.
3. “^KVA3VQ:Motive at creation:” to maintain the history of http://www.Meetup.com/AsianFriendster description, no, all the settings of the site except for members & titles.
   
4. “^KVA3WV:Title at creation: desiring name”[Meetup.com/AsianFriendster description], no, title[http://Meetup.com/AsianFriendster settings]; “renamed to” title[TBA].
5. “^KVA579:Initially Published-at URL:” TBA.
2. .

L7JBYM

^L7JC4U:  -2010.08.21pst2055 (~1% complete 1st version):
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header info

Contents —Read for a quick full-picture of what's here

1. “L4N2ZW: Document Participants, Topics, & Confidentiality
2. [KVV0OX: Sample item 1
1. KVUZXE: Sample sub item
1. KVUZXP: Sample sub-sub item
3. KVV161: How to use this? See Writing Docs in ((post template)KKUJWXV instructions & history)KVUYWG
4. “KVA16I: Document Background & History”
1. KUJWXV: 2009.12.12pst1005 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. s]

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2. “^KVA16I: Document Background & History”

1. ^L7JBYM: 2010.08.21pst2049 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. “^L2MXTP:Confidentiality & Copyright: This document is copyrighted & could be confidential; specifically the document's owner(s) require all having this document abide by LoveRules.Info ownership & access rights (on LoveRules.Info About) with no exceptions unless its owner(s) state otherwise below or here:” no exceptions now.
2. “^KVA3T1:Initially formed by: copying as directed” Writely doc KUJWXV http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=0AX07OJ9W4BnBZGM2dnN4ZHdfMjQ3Nzk2Mzd4Zms “Revision 1238 -2010.08.07pst1118 (~99% complete 5th version)” to new Writely doc L7JBYM https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc6vsxdw_337g2wnx9fq.
3. “^KVA3VQ:Motive at creation:” To document this comprehensive game I've imagined today, extending on my SpeedMeeting™ idea.
   
4. “^KVA3WV:Title at creation: desiring name”[The LoveRules.Info Game #1] suggested by Lucy; “renamed to” title[TBA].
5. “^KVA579:Initially Published-at URL:” TBA.
2. .

L79CMP

^L79ELD:  -2010.08.07pst1118 (~1% complete 1st version):
[>pic]

header info

Contents —Read for a quick full-picture of what's here

1. “L4N2ZW: Document Participants, Topics, & Confidentiality
2. [KVV0OX: Sample item 1
1. KVUZXE: Sample sub item
1. KVUZXP: Sample sub-sub item
3. KVV161: How to use this? See Writing Docs in ((post template)KKUJWXV instructions & history)KVUYWG
4. “KVA16I: Document Background & History”
1. KUJWXV: 2009.12.12pst1005 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.This story involves me & L7JEFF.

2. ^L79G1N: This is a story of an afternoon I spent with L7JEFF (a friend of mine) and then my psychoanalysis I did of each of us the next day. 
3. ^L79G6E: To  protect L7JEFF's identity,
   
1. ^L7JEFF:L7JEFF is a made-up name.
2. ^L79G83: I am not saying when this incident took place.
4. 
   
5. 
   
6. 
   

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7. “^KVA16I: Document Background & History”

1. ^L79CMP: 2010.08.16pst1128 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. “^L2MXTP:Confidentiality & Copyright: This document is copyrighted & could be confidential; specifically the document's owner(s) require all having this document abide by LoveRules.Info ownership & access rights (on LoveRules.Info About) with no exceptions unless its owner(s) state otherwise below or here:” no exceptions now.
2. “^KVA3T1:Initially formed by: copying as directed” Writely doc KUJWXV http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=0AX07OJ9W4BnBZGM2dnN4ZHdfMjQ3Nzk2Mzd4Zms “Revision 1238 -2010.08.07pst1118 (~99% complete 5th version)” to new Writely doc L79CMP https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc6vsxdw_335hqn57dcf.
3. “^KVA3VQ:Motive at creation:” share an interesting somewhat-pioneering psychological analysis I did of one of my friends and me.
   
4. “^KVA3WV:Title at creation: desiring name”[L7JEFF's phone call]; “renamed to” title[L7JEFF's phone call L79CMP].
5. “^KVA579:Initially Published-at URL:” TBA.
2. .

2010 Harvest Crusade+what UU&anti-religious cd learn fr it L8KOZT

^L8KOZT: Revision 1643 -2010.09.11pst0106 (~81% complete 1st version):
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2010 Harvest Crusade in Anaheim and what UU & anti-religious could learn from it

Contents —Read for a quick full-picture of what's here

1. L6WDIU: Intro
2. L6WD85: What Happened
3. L6WEHM: My DestinyArchitect's Review of what happened
1. L6WEMN: 4 of 5 Stars. This was quite a bit better & more fun than I expected, plus a lot for UU to learn from.
2. The music
3. L6WJLL: People:
1. L6YZCO: Which church were people from? 5/7th from Calvary Chapel, only 1/7th not in church.
2. L6YYPD: Everyone was friendly. No person was pushy, unless if you started talking a religion other than Christian, then 2 of 5 were
3. I got to know mostly whomever I encountered (9) groups, and took time to find out about each of them:
4. L6YTZI: Also this KFSH "the fish" 95.9FM radio station I've stumbled on over the last couple weeks is also rather good in may ways:
5. L6YZ6R: What UU & anti-religious could learn from this (Harvest Crusade) -under construction
4. “KVA16I: Document Background & History”
1. L6WBR8: 2010.08.09pst1040 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. ^L6WDIU: Intro

1. ^L6WDMJ: I was motivated to do this post by UUYA! of OC's event I DestinyArchitect/DestinyArchitect hosted to attend the 2010 Harvest Crusade in Anaheim, Day 3 of 3). The writeup & my review of this won't fit there, plus it could be of general benefit, so I'm putting it here. From the event page, here's the description:
   

   

   (Sun)5:00pm-~10:30pm[ ended ~8:40pm]; FREE! (Anaheim Stadium charges $10/car [on Orangewood Ave. there was plenty of $5 parking) but you can carpool or park nearby and walk/bike)
   
   

   Sure, this is definitely not your usual UU event, but read on to see why it makes some real good sense. Quoting the conclusion of Why good UU leaders should find UUYA! hot,

   How has UU performed for & served young adults, as say compared to the conservative religions? —say right here in Orange County? Well in 2006 and last year 2009, the Harvest Festival (preaching semi-conservative Christianity to young adults) filled Anaheim Stadium three-days in a row(!) (and Aug 6-8 plans to do it again), whereas 4 of 5 UU congregations in Orange & LA Counties not only lack a young adult program, they have virtually no young adults. Well UU* YOUNG ADULTS! Intl. is all about changing that; support us.

   And one way to start getting young adults into UU is to take a real look at how the more conservative religions are very successfully doing it. So join me as we visit the Harvest [Festival>Crusade] 2010 on the last day of this enormous musical event. Last year in Laguna Hills I met some good-looking, charged-up young adults driving back to San Diego after attending this event!

   
   I've never attended before and certainly don't plan on converting from UU, but my guess is this will be the biggest day as far as young adults, so a great time to learn how the more conservative religions are so successful in attracting young adults. Big, different, musical, and something new.

   Coming? Might come? Wish you could come? Or would never come? RSVP! Hope to see you :-)

   If you need a ride or would like to carpool, please indicate it on your RSVP comment.

2. ^L6WEGU: Possibly because I didn't get the post up until the night before (due to undue stress from UU), only myself and 1 other from our group RSVP'd to attend.
   

2. ^L6WD85: What Happened

1. ^L6WDE3: Anaheim Stadium was packed, no seats left (="45,050" people) by the time I walked in (about 6:07pm), so minutes later they closed the doors to more people. It lasted until 8:30pm, just 2.5 hours. Overall people seemed to enjoy it, the seats stayed packed the whole time, and about 15% of  people were also markedly enthusiastic about it.
   
2. ^L6WDED: It seemed basically a Christian church service, with seemingly most attendees from "Calvary" (Calvary Chapel), though:
1. ^L6XMUX: huge (overfilling Anaheim Stadium)
   
2. ^L6XMTA:NOT mentioning "Calvary[ Chapel]" nor any particular denomination and instead focusing just on the the universal aspects of Christianity and even general montheism (minimal talk on on Jesus, mostly just on God)
3. ^L6XMWQ:  NOT displaying any crosses, including not in the printed literature.
4. ^L6XMY8: about 1/2 of time spent on music (all inspiring & upbeat & recent pop Christian music, performed live, & encouraging audience to sign along, ); it was talk, then song or two, then repeat that, for the whole service.
   
5. ^L6XMZM: a little in-your-seat dance "despite those southern Baptists"
6. ^L6XN0C: the last 15 minutes all interested were asked to come on the field and, in group, take the Christian pledge, and about 5000 did.
3. Age range roughly 4 to 50 with the bulk around 30; mostly from Orange else LA County; White followed by Hispanic were the most popular races but there were also a few Asians and others.
4. ^L6X299: The sound system was so loud that you could talk quietly to the person next to you and/or talk on the phone without disturbing others.  For at least 1, the music was too loud: see note below.
   
5. ^L6WDGP: Greg Laurie seemed to assume the audience was Christian else God believers; he talked about:
1. ^L6X3QS: Christian basics especially how to become one, plus
2. ^L6X3RC: a lot on Heven (including how it wasn't boring as he quoted Issac Asamof describing) and a small bit on Hell;
3. ^L6X3RU: his own major grief (how his son and the children of others he works with had died unexpectedly, though not much detail on how) but how, thanks to Christianity, he would be meeting them in Heaven, and
   
4. ^L6X3TL: The related question of "If God is loving, then why do bad things happen to God people" which he answered "I don't know" but later brought in another guest speaker (minister?) who had one answer (the world is imperfect & has sin, therefore some of it will just fall your way, but you still have to keep upbeat);
5. ^L6X3UR: how he had to preach to himself sometimes.
6. ^L6X3V4: The told a story of Kyle(?), a Muslim who left his faith & wife, came to this country, got into drugs and living with woman, was planning to commit suicide but heard a Harvest Festival on the radio and came in, and got converted to Christianity and has been happy for 7 years.
6. ^L6X2U4Music & audience participation. About 1/2 the service was music, all singable Christian with lyrics, seemingly all pop songs. From the FAQ with hyperlinks added, "Musical Artists: Steven Curtis Chapman [including song Cinderella about meeting his daughter again in Heaven, and I think Dive], Mercy Me [including song "All of Creation[, Sing with me now]" and "You Reign"] , The Katinas." About 1/2 of the songs people were encouraged to sign-along. For about 4 songs, people were encouraged to stand and dance-in-place (and nearly all did, and either danced in placed or raised their arms in praise). At at the end people were encouraged to come down to the main field as described.  To my surprise, at no time were people asked to acknowledge the people along side them (as greet them, shake hands, hold hands, etc), a practice typical in  UU service.
7. ^L6X390: Funds collection. Like a standard Christian church service, about 2/3rds thru there was a funds collection. You could do this two ways: by the traditional ushers passing a basket (big popcorn holder) with people putting in money, or by SMS/texting a certain number which would give $10. For paper-based, people were encouraged to use the envelope (placed in the drink holder of the seat in front of them) which also had an area where one could fill in credit card information plus name & address info; unfortunately I didn't save one of these envelopes.
8. ^L6YMRS: The repeated props were inexpensive but still cute. Ushers, Follow-up people, and event security had just a solid-color T-shirt saying so. Paper theater popcorn tubs were used as collection baskets. The program guide, which every attendee was handed, was printed on newspaper stock.
   
9. I also heard Harvest advertised and even rebroadcast on KFSH "the fish" 95.9FM, an upbeat pop-rock Christian station seemingly not affiliated with Calvary's ~20 radio stations.
   
10. ^L6WK3F: Foundations & beliefs. From talking to those doing book sales, the annual event, which tours around the US at about 5 locations, “operate as a ministry of Harvest Christian Fellowship (a Calvary Chapel in Riverside, California)”*, which now also has a location in Irvine (two locations), which is an offshoot of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (also the founding location of Calvary Chapel), and is head by Greg Laurie.  Also on display were about 7 books and 1 DVD under Greg Laurie's name.
1. ^L6YKSW: What are Calvary Chapel beliefs (beyond general Christian)?
1. ^L6YKTR:The book seller said Calvary is like Catholic, the faith he grew up in before he switched, but not quite as conservative (as birth control is okay).
2. ^L6YL8P: From what I was able to gather from talking with people, Calvary is like Catholic in that they are: against abortion, against homosexuality, against gay-marriage (saw dozens of women in T-shirts saying "Marriage=Man+Woman" plus found this article), and women cannot be pastors.
3. ^L6YLC9: They perceive themselves as and desire to interpret the bible literally, the inerrancy of the Bible.
4. ^L6YLT7: Seemingly for religious scholars, further details can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_Chapel#Doctrine.


11. ^L6YK28: Considerable further info is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary_Chapel#Harvest_Crusades .
    

3. ^L6WEHM: My DestinyArchitect's Review of what happened

1. ^L6WEMN: 4 of 5 Stars. This was quite a bit better & more fun than I expected, plus a lot for UU to learn from.

2. The music

1. ^L6X2G8: was okay to good. The songs that Harvest folk had composed weren't that good. I liked the more dancy & popular songs, especially the songs that I had already heard & liked on Christian KFSH "the fish" 95.9FM, especially "All of Creation[, Sing with me now]" by MercyMe.
   
2. ^L6X2I3:The music was so loud it began to be painful for me: I fashioned ear plugs out of paper which, after 2 of them in each ear, brought the volume down to acceptable levels.  

3. ^L6WJLL: People:

1. ^L6YZCO: Which church were people from? 5/7th from Calvary Chapel, only 1/7th not in church.

1. ^L6WK2P: Not counting the picketers, of the 7 groups of attendees I asked which church chain they were from:
2. ^L6YYJ2: 5 were from a Calvary Chapel. This strongly suggested to me that that the event sure looked like it wanted to sell to everyone (especially non-religious, seemingly even disillusioned Muslims, not even displaying the Cross nor mentioning the word "Calvary") still 5 of 7 were from Calvary, so it was mostly preaching to its own. However, with the maybe 50K in attendance, that still left about 15K not from Calvary, so that's still a huge # of people.
   
3. ^L6YYJN: 1 was from a 1-of-a-kind evangelical Christian church (Streetlight Church in Anaheim)
4. 1 was not in any church, just coming out of curiosity.



4. ^L6YYPD: Everyone was friendly. No person was pushy, unless if you started talking a religion other than Christian, then 2 of 5 were

1. ^L6YZH5: except, in 2 of 5 incidences, after I brought up in some detail UU, after the person asked).
2. ^L6X22F: I was wearing a name-tag from church which said my first name plus "10 year UU Advocate" in small print. But other than that, I didn't say my religious affiliation unless people asked about it or asked "What's your tag about?" which only a few did.
3. ^L70OKA: Even though there were about 45K people packed into a stadium with no check of anyone (other than a quick look into bags for bombs), there were no fights that I saw.
   

1. I got to know mostly whomever I encountered (9) groups, and took time to find out about each of them:

1. ^L6WJNA: The people I happened to park at the same place & time as me: white couple walking in in 30s --I walked with them.  They listen to Christan KFSH "the fish" 95.9FM regularly and had heard about the event en route to driving to the movies and decided to come. They go to a Calvary Chapel in Long Beach.
   
2. ^L6WJP9: The people the usher sat me next to (only seat available):
1. ^L6WKEH: on my right, a notably overweight white woman, 30s: she said that certain people volunteer as "follow-ups" so to help people after they convert on the field.
   
2. ^L6WJSN: on my left, 4 Hispanic guys in 20s, seeming former gang members.  3 of 4 dressed in identical outfits (light blue jean shorts, white t-shirt, sun glasses), which to me looked like gang clothes. The guy next to me, Joseph, was quite friendly. He said they all went to Streetlight Church in Anaheim (evangelical), and came from different cities to go there. He said the spend a lot of time keeping kids out of gangs. I recall he said it really helps him keep him out of trouble.  He also said he got married too young (21) and had a kid and got divorced.  I guessed he would get a lot out of the military; he replied saying he really wanted to go and tried all services but wasn't allowed as he had shot-but-not-killed someone when he was 14. I was sad he was being told he couldn't get into the military now regardless, and encouraged him to look for a waiver. Another one of the guys became curious of my talking to him and asked me about my UU sticker. I explained UU focuses on bringing together the various religions (the way I described it to most people who asked) and gave a UUYA! of OC card, but I was quick to add that I don't think UU would serve them as well as evangelical Christianity as far as keeping out the gangs; that guy was barely interested in taking the card being sold on Christianity, but I told him it was not to convert him, just to know what's out there.
   
3.  ^L6YNF6:The nearest usher standing by, a white woman in her 40s. She said she was from a Calvary Chapel and that one volunteers on the website to become an usher and there is training beforehand. She said what was unique for her about Calvary was their emphasis on the holly spirit (on Wednesday the minister of Calvary Foothill, Steve, said this, too, plus having a personal relationship with Jesus/God, the reasons why he switched 35 years ago from Episcopal). She asked me about my name-tag, and I told her about UU. But she didn't see much point in studying other religions for she said the Bible says everyone should be Christian (and repeated this a few times). I said to her, "Well of course you would say that, else I wouldn't know you weren't really following Calvary"; she wanted to hear I agreed with her but this was the only way I was able to appease her when I said I was doing anything other than Christian (plus saying UU is incomplete, which it is). It was clear she would be pushy if I disagreed with anything, so this worked pretty well to smooth things over.
   
4. ^L6YNH1: An I-thought very attractive Hispanic woman, 20s, great figure, sitting in the bleaches behind us, Crystal I think. This group of about 15 woman came from a Calvary Chapel in San Gabriel Valley (LA County). It seemed odd that the large group was all women, and they seemed unusually reluctant to talk with me (an unknown but friendly guy) so I cut the talk short.
   
5. ^L6WJUN: As walking around, an attractive (my type) Korean women I saw sitting alone, probably in 30s. She just flew in today from Soul, was only going to be in the US 2 weeks, and was waiting for daughter (a senior in HS) & her daughter's friend (another guy, HS senior) to return from getting a Bible of on the field.  The woman had come back to US to find new housing for her daughter, who was now living in Rancho Cucamunga(sp?). She asked me about my name-tag (UU) which I told her. She showed some interest in dating me (actually the feeling was mutual) and said that she had also had her daughter with an American man but she was now divorced and he was in a different state.  All 3 of them liked me and her daughter was quite charming & outgoing towards me, even more so than her mother (she struck me as the kind of daughter I would like to have); her daughter said they didn't belong to any religious congregation just came here out of curiosity. Her mother said she would enjoy hanging out with me more and gave me her email. Though the 3 were enjoying my company, I parted early so I could talk with more people at the event before everyone left.
6. ^L6WJX9: Wanting to ask attendees about Calvary beliefs when walking around, the nearest group: a large White/Hispanic family. The mother explained to me that the Harvest Crusade was not just that, but put on by Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside where they had attended, but now would not have to drive so far given an Irvine location was opened. She asked me about my name-tag (UU) which I told her; she didn't have comment I recall. I started asking her about the basic beliefs of Calvary but as they were leaving they put me in touch with a nearby Harvest supervisor, who was also rushed so gave me his number.
   
7. ^L6WJZU: So, working the book sales in the front, I saw a Hispanic/white married couple 40s volunteering to sell Harvest (mostly Greg Laurie) books.
1. So figuring they would know, I asked the positions of Calvary Chapel on various issues. You can see the man's answer above (section L6YKTR).
2. ^L6ZWPN: The woman asked me about UU from my tag, so I said “Okay, since you asked.” and eventually said when she was trying hard to sell me on Christianity that ~“This may shock you, but I grew up in the Christian faith and my greatest relieve was in college when I finally let it go, and stopped trying to force myself to believe in supernatural for which there was insufficient scientific evidence (or even definition).” She said it didn't shock her so I said “but it disappoints you want to pray for me, right? [yes] Yes I know the Christian thinking.”
   
3. ^L6ZX7Q: She put me in touch with her husband. I explained to him ~ “I'm really ignostic, and though they say “There are no atheists (or ignostics) in fox holes” you're looking at one; I was in a fox hole under fire and even then I still remained ignostic, because it's the only scientifically position as best I can reason and I would be compromising myself to, at the last minute, compromise my beliefs and start believing in say God or Jesus just because it felt good. But that doesn't mean I don't have morals: I aim for myself to do the right thing regardless, even if it ends up there is no God to see or judge me.” He said he admired my strength and resolve, and indeed seemed a bit surprised by it. I said “I really appreciate that, what a pleasant surprise.” His wife still wanted me to be a Christian, eeks.
4. ^L6ZX8I: Anyway, I asked the Calvary position on gay marriage: they were against it, and the wife said she was upset that one man (Judge Walker) could overturn the vote of a state. So I said, “But even if the majority were in favor of gay marriage, and trends look like that will eventually come to pass, I still agree with a Jehovah Witness friend I know that it seems for many people the state is desecrating the word marriage for many people as the Bible says it's just between a Man & a Woman; they couldn't agree more and were surprised to hear me say that. I then continued that I had an idea: what if the state/government only did civil unions between people (for same sex or different sex; it was just a legal contract) and if you wanted a “marriage” you'd have to go the church, and it was up to them if gay was allowed – then you could make everybody happy, both the conservatives & liberals, plus truly separate church & state. How would you feel about that?” They liked the idea (nearly every religious conservative I've told it to has) so I said “Great, pass it on! Indeed wouldn't it be cool if California were the first to really solve this conflict with a solution such as this?” - they agreed, and it struck me this might be a gem of an idea, especially to appeal to the religious right, and rightfully so. :-)
8. ^L6WK09:Guy picketing the event with a big sign saying “Greg Laurie leads to Hell”. For me, this is a curiosity. And I found out what's up. The short story (or at least a key element) is  that his group were picketing this event because they didn't think semi-conservative Christian Harvest Crusade was conservative enough(!).  The long story is this:
1. ^L6YSRV: Especially after seeing this myself as an overall positive, gentle and non-pushy event, my guess someone who would right such sign “Greg Laurie leads to Hell” was very angry & bitter. So my challenge to myself was to understand & undo that bitterness. Indeed that would be probably something the Harvest organizers would  really appreciate, but that's not why I would do it: I would just because it was the right thing to do. Plus certainly this person may have some points (as about Harvest, else about something) that I might be missing. So...
2. ^L6YT09: Just then a police man on a motorcycle was saying loudly on a megaphone, "You picketers, that means you with the sign, the event's over so time to leave."  My guess is this made the man feel bad. So, while everyone was then walking away from him, I walked with him, and asked him sincerely & gently why he made such a sign.
3. ^L6YT0Q: He said because Greg Laurie doesn't follow the entire Bible. I asked Which part? He said 2 parts:
   
1. ^L6YT2F: one in that Greg Laurie says you can be saved even if you don't work to undo your sins. I said that was serious, but pointed out that Greg just said in his sermon one of the 4 steps to being a Christian is to undo your sins. But he said, But they don't insist on that. I said I don't know that much; okay,...
2. ^L6YT2Y: What's the other thing? He said because Greg Laurie says in one of his books that every man Seeks God but the Bible says Men don't seek God, but Greg Laurie changes this because it attracts more people to say they do. I said this seems a minor point. But...
   
4. ^L6YT4P: he insisted the Bible must be interpreted literally. I complimented him his Bible research (he could quote all sorts of passages); he thanked me. I tried to note that the Bible is still human made & human translated and the translations vary, but no avail. I tried to bring up that science sees that there is one truth but also shows it can appear very differently due perspectives (blue or red or high-pitched or low-pitched depending if an object is approaching or going away) plus can never be absolutely measured (Hisneburg(sp?) Principle and You can't ask a question without changing what people think) so therefore even if the Bible represented one truth it could reasonably be interpreted differently by different eyes. He cut me off saying he didn't believe in science and other "Words of man" but I eventually got him to listen, but I don't think he bought it.
   
5. So, without saying it then, tried a different but major long-shot approach (his making a Gay friend). I said the Bible says homosexuality was bad. He agreed. I said But perhaps that was just a first interpretation of the situation. He said it was the best interpretation. But, a bit to my surprise, he agreed that homosexuals are likely born that way (because the Bible says so, and apparently it does - not the reason I was looking for, but a start). So I brought up genetic mutation, and got him to eventually agree that homosexuality was likely a genetic mutation (he agreed with this, saying that he believes in Evolution & genetic adaptation on a micro scale, just not a macro scale) - that was an achievement. So then I explained how it seemed likely that humans have a fundamental dislike or like homosexuality even if the Bible didn't say anything (he agreed with this) AND that fundamental dislike was seemingly driven by this genetic mutation (this was news to him, but it caused him to think) so therefore perhaps the bible was written out of that instinctive feeling (he didn't like that thought, but the logic now seemed to sell him a little). He also had the opinion that while God made people born homosexual (and that it was wicked because God makes wickedness says the Bible), that Christianity could convince them to be straight. But then I got him to think, But, hey, since you agreed we are genetically wired this way, How hard do you think it would be for you and me to be taught to start having sex with men, and enjoying it?  He agreed he hadn't thought about it the other way, and that indeed that would pretty impossible (yeah, I got another point thru!).  Anyway, he said he knew of homosexuals but never got to really know any because he would immediately tell them they were wicked so they went away; so I encouraged him to consider NOT telling them they were wicked so soon and instead get to know a few -- after all, nothing's going to help if you drive them away; believe it not, he seemed to say he would consider that, that he might get to know some gays & lesbians (dang, another point!).
6. ^L6YTJV: At any rate, he kind of liked me somehow, I guess because I listened to him when others just thought he was crazy.  He was a white guy, thin, late 20s, with a huge beard. I asked him how he got involved in this "one true church" he was in. He said because his father founded it, and they only had 50 members (but it was clear they made a lot of noise). I said that must have been a big influence on him, changing his life outlook; he said it was. So, having not given him my name, I took a risk: I told him of a member of my family who turned out bisexual, and said if I hadn't exposed to that, I might not understand it, either. This got him thinking more it seemed.
1. ^L6YUPW: I told him Even though we are on opposite ends of the religious spectrum, it's good we can talk to each other. He agreed.
7. ^L6YUNV: His group (in camper) was leaving so he drove off.  But as I walked out of the Stadium and cross the street, his camper rounded the bend towards me, and I waved to them, and they honked back.  My guess is some connection was made :-)
8. ^L6YUQD: He had given me a flier. Later I looked at it:
1. ^L6YXMJ: It was from http://ATrueChurch.Info - and that website gives quite a bit of details, seemingly well researched, but not the flier they gave me.
2. ^L6YXN6: The flier gave about 20 conclusions in plain English followed by the bible quote which backed it up. While it appeared a leading purpose of these conclusions were to use 1 or more of them to show that some leading popular Christian movement (that claims to take the bible literally) was inaccurate in that point, I think rather they might be useful for (say an article) showing that it is ridiculous to take the bible literally as it contradicts itself perhaps in many ways else makes some really obviously ridiculous (as unloving) statements  - I'm not sure of this use and statement, but am saving the flier for this later use.
   
3. ^L6YX5G: Google Search["true church" "God kills even babies"] did not find the flier online.
1. ^L6YXAL: So, figuring they would appreciate the publicity, I put online. (^L6YVOW: Flyer copy labeled "L6YVOW:"; ^L6YWA6: Flyer OPD file: OTC_flier_L6YVOW.L6YWA6.opd; ^L6YWC4: Flier PDF: OTC_flier_L6YVOW.L6YWA6.opd.searchable_image_L6YWC4.pdf)
1. ^L6YVA0: The search did find an interview with the founder saying “"A true church," however, fo­cuses on exposing "false teachers", which they believe to be virtually every religious leader in America, and possibly the world. From Billy Graham and James Dobson to Pat Robertson and even the Pope, these "false teachers" are drag­ging the world to Hell and there's nothing anyone can do about it because "God Creates People for Hell"”.

5. ^L6YTZI: Also this KFSH "the fish" 95.9FM radio station I've stumbled on over the last couple weeks is also rather good in may ways:

1. ^L6YZL9: They advertised the event a little, and played some of it on the radio, and had a booth there, but what's notable:
   
2. ^L6YU0S: Their songs are inspiring & upbeat (though they do repeat a bit much, like KIIS FM). "All of Creation[, Sing with me now]" by MercyMe is excellent.
3. ^L6YU43: They have a lot of good advice, such as this morning the need to monitor your child's Facebook page, and how, including the point that "Your kid will say they don't like it (as a condition of their being on Facebook) but some of their friends will like you will add you to their page, and when they post something out of line, you can tell them to fix it, and if they don't you call up their parent, but they still won't delete you because underlying they know they need supervision and appreciate it."
4. The John Tesh radio show is really quite good, being filled with helpful scientific facts & stories.  “Tesh�s radio show focuses on a concept he calls "Music and Intelligence For Your Life," providing listeners with guidance and information that they can use in their daily lives. ”
5. ^L6YZNT: Other than what the songs say, they're never preachy.
   
6. ^L6YU2I: They say the song name & artist after each song.

4. ^L6YZ6R: What UU & anti-religious could learn from this (Harvest Crusade) -under construction

1. ^L6Z1EZ: My mother being a Unitarian from birth, she said many UU would (mistakenly) look down their noses at something like the Harvest Crusade.
2. ^L6Z1J2: When I invited my non-religious and atheist/atheist-leaning buddy Mahesh replied “I'd hate it actually. But thanks for asking”. 
   
3. ^L6Z0PT: And with me being UU, moreover a deep ignostic with atheistic leaning, one might think that I might not get much out of this semi-conservative Christian event (by a church anti-homosexual and anti-abortion), and probably wouldn't want to go. 
   
1. ^L6Z14Q: But I think the key word here is "Ignostic " - Ignostics are thinkers (agnostic is the only scientifically correct statement of God's existence, and Ignostic take it a step deeper: we don't even have a a good enough definition of God(s) to scientifically say if God(s) exist). 
4. ^L6ZVUC: So all UU & anti-religious snobbery aside, we need to face that, as well demonstrated by the Harvest Crusades, Christianity is the top among major world religions (1 in 3 people are Christian) but UU is sheer bottom (1 in 10,000); in fact UU is the only major religion below 1 million adherents so would seem at risk to falling off the list & not even qualifying as a major world religion!
   
1. ^L6WJGH:For UU, I think the biggest (and very significant) lesson here is, UU-alone (or at least its present practice), UU-alone simply doesn't meet the needs hundreds of thousands of people, indeed it feels like ~90% of US people in the US.  As my mother, a Unitarian from birth put it, "UU ain't ever going to fill Anaheim Stadium!". So a bit of humility on UU's part is quite appropriate.
2. ^L70OXH: How does a UU or non-religious or agnostic or maybe atheist enjoy & deeply learn from an religious evanjalist event?
   
1. ^L6Z15R: Harvest was quite a bit better & more fun & deeply educational than I had expected. How to be able to say & do that? Mindset!
2. ^L6Z18W: The key for me was to have the right mindset of appropriate humility & appropriate self-control:
1. ^L6Z1B1: to not let myself get caught up focusing on the many likely untruths everywhere (of Christianity) as I would have for most of my life before,
2. ^L6Z1C4: including not correcting people belief of these likely untruths (unless it was truly absolutely necessary, which in no instance here it was),
3. ^L6Z1DE: to let people be where they're at (as to see they are happy there and no clear harm was really being done by that), and
4. ^L6Z1DU: to instead focus on the many & indeed overall good being done & good I saw in each person (in every person I talked with), and talk with people about this good.
5. ^L6Z1Q6: In general to see:
1. ^L6Z1QR: overall happiness is more important than immediate 100% truth, and that,
   
2. ^L6Z1RG: at least in this case (for enough people to overflow Anaheim stadium!), pure truth alone (at least as best as we know how to phrase it) would NOT bring overall happiness.
3. ^L6Z1S4: It has taken me years to develop this mindset, being one who has for most of my life been focused on, trained myself, and preached to essentially only look at (scientific) truth.
1. ^L6Z20A: But with that mindset, I think most everyone, even people of competing religious faiths, even my buddy Mahesh, could have had this same reaction, and really could have enjoyed it.
3. ^L70FOR: As Harvest is able to fill Anaheim Stadium with happy people, thinking love, good morals, and not using drugs, and with 7/8th just walking in-out-the door (not signing up for anything) then Harvest must be doing something very right. They must be fulling an important need of hundreds of thousands!, and likely touching on deep desires of the majority of the people of this world.
4. ^L73ZP3: So what is Harvest doing, that anti-religious & even UU aren't doing, bringing Harvest enormous popularity & success? --Christianity is 3333x more popular than UU, as Harvest well-demonstrates.
   

UU deficiency	Attribute
skip	L70O6M: the work of God/Jesus/Holly Spirit?  This is of course what Harvest leaders and many attendees would claim (and believe), but naturally that's debatable. So especially then, can we we be more specific? --nail it down to acts in the real world? What real world acts is Harvest doing, that anti-religious & even UU aren't doing, bringing Harvest enormous popularity & success?
10%	L73Z0C: Getting organized & gathering? Well anti-religious aren't doing that, but UU certainly is. Including http://UUA.Org has a great directory: enter your zip and find all your local congregations.
40%	L6ZXO4: Avertizing? Yes, Harvest seems to do a special effort to advertise, getting radio stations & even-non-religious newspapers (as OC Register) to list their event on the front page, and it markets ahead via a SWAT Teams. And, probably most significant of all, evangelitic Christianity has no hesitation in in saying it's a good way to go (to put it mildly!), in contrast to UUs who will often (MIS-)think of evangelising a dirty activity; indeed UU does a crappy job of advertising.  But still, today we've got world-wide-web and UU is on it, so if literally anybody with a cool enough concept or creation can get known world-wide within days ("it goes viral" as they say), so that still seemingly wouldn't explain the 1 to 3333 ratio!
40%	L7408L: Making young adult involvement a priority.  Yes.  Else the religion doesn't provide a lifelong solution. The huge Harvest Crusade was specifically designed to attract young adults, and fills Anaheim Stadium with mostly young adults; UU has nothing remotely comparable, indeed “4 of 5 UU congregations in Orange & LA Counties not only lack a young adult program, they have virtually no young adults”. Indeed the best thing UU has got going for it as far as young adults is my group UU* YOUNG ADULTS! International and recently (2010.06-08) UU leadership support for this has been a disgrace as "Expect pioneers to have Enemies" hints of. But this just shows dramatically different priority placed on young adults, so... L74182: What explains why young adult involvement really helps the faith? L7418G: Well one indicator is the success of the faith; if Christianity is 3333x more popular than UU, and is many times more emphasis as far as young adult involvement, then it it is not proof but a reasonably that is a factor, and I believe it is, which will I will attempt to explain below. L741C1:Immediate motivators/dissuaders. L741IU: Now in both faiths (and in most all faiths) the young adults are the hardest to recruit (now finally out from under their their parents influence and wanting to go on their own way) and young adults seemingly would bring the least immediate support tot he faith (have the least money & time, often don't yet have kids to train; only if we need them to fight religious wars (as Taliban) are young adults really valuable and that-thankfully is the exception!). L741LH: However for Christians (and other faiths that feel they are the only answer, or by far the best), keeping the young adults involved has the obvious result of marriage within the faith, keeping the faith strong & pure. L741LY: Interestingly, for UU, they probably more prefer the opposite, for instance the Catholic who has married a Jew for instance, as they provide a home to these mixed faith marriages, and the mixed faith encourages more open-minded thinking align with UU views (several paths to truth); so UU might say "Go out and marry someone of a different faith, it will then make it more obvious why UU makes sense, and likely then we will be your own only home." --yes, this would seem true, but also in letting up on that young adult's involvement (when they can finally get away, they do) may keep them away forever: probably even more likely is the young adult gets disillusioned with religion in general; indeed, in a mixed marriage they may discover "both religions were wrong (that each is THE path), so scratch religion all together. Or else just get caught up in some other more conservative religion which obviously doesn't care to let their young adults to just casually walk away, so they seems to really care that, yes, this is a lifetime solution. L7423H: UU's may have an additional drive: recruiting & keeping young adults is the hardest job of all, and UUs are typically paranoid of being pushy. Indeed, UU is all about finding one finding ones  own spiritual path ("free & responsible search for truth in & reason"). Indeed UUs teach kids all the major religions and say "You don't have to pick UU".  While I can see logic in the latter, UU's paranoia of being pushy is understandable given UUs origins but still disgusting & sad, and here provides another why UU  would loose young adults to others religions who at least show they have the guts to speak with strength, or to loose young adults to non-religion. But while conservative religions may be strongly involving young adults for selfish reasons (as keeping their faith strong & pure, thru say marriage), and UU is neglecting involving young adults for altruistic reasons (not telling young adults (or anyone) what to believe), reasons seem less important than the result: L742DM:Conservative religions involve the young adult, sometimes big time, indeed even though the young adult is the hardest to involve. In the end, this shows to the young adult that they are cared for by the religion, and that the religion indeed is a life-long solution.  Whereas UU, for whatever reason (good or bad, whatever), UU principly doesn't bother really involving young adults (typically beyond lip-service that "it would be nice, but not if it takes more than 5 minutes to talk about it"), which then naturally this shows the young adult (as it did for me) that they are NOT supported here (by UU), and that this thing really isn't a lifetime solution.  So will they be coming back? Well I certainly wouldn't. The only reason one would come back is because they really had no other truly scientific alternative (as is the case), not because they're coming to something with a life-long solution as they aren't: unlike most other religions, UU doesn't effectively have young adults!
	L6ZXM8: Supernatural & other unscientific promises?  Yes.  Yes, UU for the agnostics (and generously say 50% of Buddhism (minus it's Karma)) seem to be only religion(s) to be scientifically accurate (by simply not stating things as supernatural where we don't have solid scientific basis), and while this has been very key to me and probably to most any full scientist, it seemingly isn't enough to explain a 1 to 3333 ratio, because L70964: most every modern educated person knows of science and knows we really don't have scientific proof of the supernatural, yet still only 13% are religiously purely scientific (choose religion without the supernatural (UU for agnostics or only Buddhism minus it's Karma) or just are non-religious (~6%)), which means the vast majority (~87% of people) choose religion with supernatural even though many/most know that supernatural is not scientific. L70718: Spreadsheet of major world religions - where these calcs are from. L743QQ: Harvest makes these feel-good but absolutely non-scientific promises: L74387: From Christianity, you'll get.... L743EL: paradise after death if you comply (Heaven), pergatory if you don't (Hell). Removal of the fear of death if you just comply. L743EU: someone who is all powerful who always (is there for you, loves you, looks out for you, wants the the best for you): God/Jesus. L743NE: a seemingly-easy way to be forgiven for all your sins, not matter how bad  L74440: total assurance that all injustice will be set right eventually. L743H3: And from evangelical Christianity, you'll also get... L743TI: a religion which is not just a good solution, not just the best solution, but the only solution. "knowing" that our holly book (the Bible), taken literally, is 100% true. L74461: "knowing" that at least our holly book (the Bible) has clear answers.
	Under construction, to be continued

5. 
   

5. However, 

   
   

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5. “^KVA16I: Document Background & History”

1. ^L6WBR8: 2010.08.09pst1040 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. “^L2MXTP:Confidentiality & Copyright: This document is copyrighted & could be confidential; specifically the document's owner(s) require all having this document abide by LoveRules.Info ownership & access rights (on LoveRules.Info About) with no exceptions unless its owner(s) state otherwise below or here:” no exceptions now.
2. “^KVA3T1:Initially formed by: copying as directed” empty (created from scratch) “Revision 1238 -2010.08.07pst1118 (~99% complete 5th version)” to new Writely doc KUJWXV http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=0AX07OJ9W4BnBZGM2dnN4ZHdfMjQ3Nzk2Mzd4Zms.
3. “^KVA3VQ:Motive at creation:” The review doesn't fit in http://Meetup.com/UUYA-US-CA-OC/calendar/14354543 plus might as well share it more widely & get ad revenue.
   
4. “^KVA3WV:Title at creation: desiring name”[2010 Harvest Crusade in Anaheim & what UU & anti-religious could learn from it]; “renamed to” title[2010 Harvest Crusade and what UU could learn from it L6WBR8].
5. “^KVA579:Initially Published-at URL:” http://blogger.LoveRules.Info/2010/08/l6wbr8.html.
2. ^L705AF: Renamed to title[2010 Harvest Crusade+what UU&anti-religious cd learn fr it L6WBR8] so to get in some more keywords; 0 characters left!
3. ^L8KP6Q: Renamed to title[2010 Harvest Crusade+what UU&anti-religious cd learn fr it L8KOZT] per the new convention to use the content ID instead of doc ID.
   

LoveRules.Info post template KUJWXV CSS L6QZ39

L6QZ39>begin{}/*^L6QZE7: Revision 348 -2010.08.06pst1756 (~96% complete 4th version):

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^KUK7BK:LoveRules.Info post template KUJWXV http://Blogger.LoveRules.Info/2009/12/kujwxv.html 's
CSS L6QZ39 http://blogger.LoveRules.Info/2010/08/l6qz39.html
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1. L6R08C:Additional intro
2. L4NK2Q: Document Title: (div)
3. L4NKKP: Table of contents title: (div)
4. KUJY6Z: Document history section: (div)
1. KVAEOZ: Title listed in document history (span)
2. KVAEQB: Published URL (unfortunately this is also used for internal URL prior to adding L6QTXE) (span)
3. L6QTXE:Internal URL (span)
5. KW4GEG: Copied from org\TortoiseSVN\checkout\KM37RH\latest\KMGJ4A\KMNP97.htm#KLK0Z8:
6. [L5PPTQ: make sup (IDs) prettier
7. [copied from _KMNP97.htm with mods esp. removing ".KMX84U/-*a body*-/" and "li ol" to "ol ol"
1. KMX6KU: Indenting
8. [L5PZY3: make more space in writely-toc and all outlines
9. [L5Q2D4: emphasize the top level TOC
10. “KVA16I: Document Background & History”
1. L6QZ39: 2010.08.06pst1319 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. ^L6R08C:Additional intro

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2. ^KW4EQE:Unless this document you're seeing is a display of the address above, this is a copy of that source which should be updated whenever a new version of the source is released.
   
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6. ^L6R8N9: Currently, Writely (but not most browsers) transforms CSS of the form " {}sup{...}" to " " so don't use the preliminary " {}" to insure you're not picking up a prior definition.
   

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   :
   KXP8S8: KXP8S8 */border-left: 1px InfoText dotted; /* -- maybe this will help visualize non-zero indent
   */}/* _KXLEND_
   
   ​​
   KXNXUL: list-style-type quick & dirty
   
   : */
   ol {list-style-type: upper-alpha;}/* require the least space so best for the top level */
   ol ol {list-style-type: decimal-leading-zero;} /*KXP9O8: of the 3 uppers/bigs, it's 2nd widest so here 2nd; KXP9OM: Not displayed by MS ExWeb3!*/
   ol ol ol {list-style-type: upper-roman;}
   ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: lower-alpha;}
   ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: decimal;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: lower-roman;}
   /* KXP9L0: repeat above sequence as many times as necessary: */
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: upper-alpha;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: decimal-leading-zero;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: upper-roman;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: lower-alpha;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: decimal;}
   ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol ol {list-style-type: lower-roman;} /*
3. 
   
1. 
   


4. copied from _KMNP97.htm]
   

8. [L5PZY3: make more space in writely-toc and all outlines

1. .writely-toc ol ol { margin-bottom: 50%;} -- L5Q0Z5: in Firefox & ExWeb this is 50% of "width" which is totally wrong, so have to...
   
2. spell it out manually:
   ol { margin-bottom: 3ex;}
   ol ol { margin-bottom: 1.5ex;}
   ol ol ol { margin-bottom: .75ex;}
   ol ol ol ol { margin-bottom: .375ex;}
3. -- replaced by just the next items:*/
   ol { margin-bottom: 2ex;}
   ol:only-child { margin-bottom: 0ex;}
   /*]
   

9. [L5Q2D4: emphasize the top level TOC

1. */.writely-toc ol {
   /* text-transform: uppercase; */
   font-weight: bold;}/*
2. */.writely-toc ol ol {
   /* text-transform: none; */
   font-weight: normal; }/*
3. L5TCFP: more indent for emphasis
   */.writely-toc ol ol {
   margin-left:.75em; padding-left: .75em;
   }/*
4. ]
   

---

10. “^KVA16I: Document Background & History”

1. ^L6QZ39: 2010.08.06pst1319 I DestinyArchitect “created & own this document”.

1. “^L2MXTP:Confidentiality & Copyright: This document is copyrighted & could be confidential; specifically the document's owner(s) require all having this document abide by LoveRules.Info ownership & access rights (on LoveRules.Info About) with no exceptions unless its owner(s) state otherwise below or here:” no exceptions now.
2. “^KVA3T1:Initially formed by: copying as directed” Writely doc KUJWXV http://docs.google.com/Edit?docid=0AX07OJ9W4BnBZGM2dnN4ZHdfMjQ3Nzk2Mzd4Zms “Revision 1214 -2010.08.06pst1317 (~99% complete 5th version)” to new Writely doc L6QZ39 https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc6vsxdw_331xbr749df.
3. “^KVA3VQ:Motive at creation:” Moved text here from ((post template)KKUJWXV instructions & history)KVUYWG section KW3TLF as I was frequently selecting the text then pasting it elsewhere so easier to put it in its own document then just do Ctrl-A to select All.
   
4. “^KVA3WV:Title at creation: desiring name”[LoveRules.Info post template KUJWXV CSS L6QZ39]; “renamed to” title[LoveRules.Info post template KUJWXV CSS L6QZ39].
5. “^KVA579:Initially Published-at URL:” http://blogger.LoveRules.Info/2010/08/l6qz39.html.
2. .

*/L6QZ39>end{}